Curse

Shadow Kurd · Aug 31, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Nintendo fanboys crying over linsey comment: http://gonintendo.com/?p=54282

Burst Cancel · Aug 31, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

To paraphrase George Carlin: consider how stupid the average person is - and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

When most gamers are morons and incompetents, I can't see that one gender being categorically better than the other makes a damn bit of difference because chances are you still RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fail.

The emphasis on 'female gamers' is tired, and most of the industry has missed the boat: the Nintendo boat, specifically. Design with wide appeal and you won't have to worry about "catering to female gamers".

I wonder if any of these panelists have been exposed to the Japanese gaming industry. "Gotta bang 'em all" is a highly relevant market segment.

Jecht Scye · Aug 31, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd

Nintendo fanboys crying over linsey comment: http://gonintendo.com/?p=54282

Oh my god I couldn't stop laughing when I read all of the comments of the crying fanboys. Linsey Murdock is now my favorite person at ArenaNet.

RiKio · Aug 31, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey

Fack Princess Peach.

/Win_Ninentdogames

On topic: I dont care about others gender. Their skill is what I are about.

MithranArkanere · Aug 31, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Girls have always played in all games.
The difference is that now they say that they do more often.

It's like anime. Years ago those things were considered 'for kids', now, like games and movies, each one has its rate.
Games where considered for 'immature kids'. That's no more.

Special thanks for games like Brain Trainer.

Narcissia · Aug 31, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

old news, who cares. the only problem ive ever had is signing on vent and the first thing i hear after i say something is "omg! a girl." obviously the person is joking, however, its annoying either way. and again. who cares.

Bryant Again · Aug 31, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

When I see girls playing video games, I get sad. It's less "wtf girls can't be playing my gamez" and more "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? SAVE YOURSELVES!!!11!1!" /sarcasm

Honestly, don't see anything wrong with it. More people to play with = awesome. The only problem with girls playing video games are the inability of male players around them to grow the hell up. I've seen quite a few guilds in WoW fall apart because the dudes acted quite literally like immature, whiny caveman. Sad, sad...

That said: Lindsey RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing rules.

Lonesamurai · Aug 31, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd

Nintendo fanboys crying over linsey comment: http://gonintendo.com/?p=54282

I LoL'd so hard i pulled the keyboard off my desk and it broke...

I need a new one now

Angelica · Aug 31, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

snip......
In regards to women being an untapped resource, it's true. With technology being an everyday thing now, using it has lost it's stigma and people (mainly companies) are waking up to it's potential as a medium for women. At least there isn't a house-keeping game yet.

^^Don't give them ideas!

I'm an "old girl" who likes to play RPG even MMO-games and my husband likes them too.
Can you immagine what shock it would be to reveal my age to a PUG after we did a very good job on a difficult mission? Would you play with your granny?

I always get a laugh when they don't believe me.

Bryant Again · Aug 31, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelica

^^Don't give them ideas!

I'm an "old girl" who likes to play RPG even MMO-games and my husband likes them too.
Can you immagine what shock it would be to reveal my age to a PUG after we did a very good job on a difficult mission? Would you play with your granny?

I always get a laugh when they don't believe me.

One of my clanmates in TF2 is 45, we call her "Auntie Doon" : ) Love her to death! She makes an awesome Engie.

*Darcy* · Sep 01, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

The question of my gender never arose since I've been playing GW - about 29 months.

But, about a year ago, I was standing around The Marketplace giving away armor collector drops and got into a conversation with two others about the problems with raising teenagers. Another player (obviously a young one) started demanding that we cease our conversation. That our topic was ruining his playing. He didn't believe that the three of us were mothers, but insisted we were boys trying to drive him crazy.

"Girls don't play GW and mothers don't play video games" was what he ended up spamming.

He would probably agree with the Marketing that thinks females should have their own games where they won't disturb the male ego.

Selket · Sep 01, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daenara

Seriously, no one cares if you're female.

People care much more to be sang starsongs and are much more disappointed when such songs are not sung.

However I am a Female Girl and I've yet to meet anyone to match my incredibly expert dexterity.

Lady Lozza · Sep 01, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Avarre, let's say you met 12 gamers. 10 boys, 2 girls. The drama queen percentage PER GENDER is 60%. This means that 4 of the boys you have met will be drama free gamers, but both the girls will be drama queens.

To make the assumption that drama is inherently caused by female gamers is erronous. If the statistics some have thrown around in this thread are correct, 90-95% of GW are male gamers. Then there is no way that you could have met a statistically significant proportion of the female gamers in GW in order to make an unbiased statement.

In my experience, drama has always been cause by the males in the guilds and groups I've been in. This does not make my experience that male games are the core of all grief, any more or less true than your belief that all female players are drama queens, as I have also not met a statistically significant proportion for female games in order to make an unbiased statement.

The fact is that in the western world society has certain ideas that change only very slowly over time.

Pink is for girls.
Blue is for boys.
Dolls are for girls.
Cars are for boys.
Ponies are for girls.
Games are for guys.

And the older men in suits no doubt cling to the idea that their audience is the 15yr old in his mother's basement - and they design their games accordingly. Girls play them because they want to play games, yes we get annoyed by the unrealistic character models and sluttish clothing, but ultimately we want to play the game and we don't give a hoot what on earth our character looks like if it is the only method of playing the game.

Games are slowly evolving too, they are slowly moving into the realm of art and expression, like TV, Film, and Music. They are escapism. Yet still men in suits are convinced that gamers are easy to please with enough gore.

The fact that the DDDD+ cup and the blood running everywhere only sells to those 15 yr olds in their mother's basement - is something that hasn't clicked to the people holding the purse strings because as far as western culture is concerned they are the only ones who play games.

It hasn't seemed to have quite clicked yet that good story sells to all.

This is not a problem in Asia where they have never had the idea that cartoons and games are for kids. That games, technology, <insert western ideology here> are for boys.

Cracking the "girl" market will not take anything amazing except a change in thought. Games are not for kids, games are not boys, games are an art medium, they have a story, and pictures, that they are made appealing by their ease and seamlessness of play (menus and learning curve as opposed to one hit kills). Have your gore, but give it meaning. Have your DDDD+ breasted chick, but give her a personality. These things will not make the game more "girly" they will simply make a better game - one that everyone is interested in playing.

TBH I'm disappointed in this panel. They addressed almost everything that people no longer care about, and not the one thing that might have made for a serious discussion - women IN the games industry. How did they get there? What problems did they face? These are the important questions because as much as youngsters swear there is equility in the industry the reality is that there is not. Knowing what problems others face makes it less scary to those contemplating a career in the industry. Knowing that others have overcome these problems and how gives future hopefuls a helpful weapon in their arsenel.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

To make the assumption that drama is inherently caused by female gamers is erronous. If the statistics some have thrown around in this thread are correct, 90-95% of GW are male gamers. Then there is no way that you could have met a statistically significant proportion of the female gamers in GW in order to make an unbiased statement... your belief that all female players are drama queens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

While I certainly don't know every female player, every one that I've been in a guild with has sparked drama, without exception. I know some that have not, in other guilds, so I can't make any serious blanket statements, but that's my experience

Do you have a real point in your post, or are you just trying to start a fight?

PS: Don't pull statistics out. Go play the game, and find out for yourself. I don't know how many of you were actually involved in PvP beyond RA, and frankly, if you haven't been in that environment, you have absolutely no say regarding it.

pumpkin pie · Sep 01, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd

Nintendo fanboys crying over linsey comment: http://gonintendo.com/?p=54282

imho:

"Nice one, Linsey…really nice. Did you ever play Super Princess Peach? Peach goes out and saves Mario’s ass in that one! Also, how many times have we seen the tough, assertive side of peach in the Paper Mario series?! Linsey, I don’t know you very well, but you seem to be hurting your cause, more than helping. Thanks to Matt for the heads up."

Lindsey's comments regarding Princess Peach shows you that she's so much under the influence of the gamming community is gear towards male syndrome, by making the princess peach comment she thinks that makes her tough. you don't have to be male to be tough, you just have to be you what ever you do where ever you are. much like the Marlo's comment about teaching girls to think a certain way, its f**k up

Just be yourself!

Lady Lozza · Sep 01, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Avarre, my apologies, what I read from your initial post was that "you" personally would not game with females for that reason regardless of what the rest of the population was like. I probably should have quoted initially.

I trust statistics more than I do stereo types. More than a few people have noted that there are not many "top" female players. Statistically if the proportion of female players are low, then this should not be surprising. How should that instantly provide decisive evidence that girls don't play as well as guys? Or even that they only play certain classes? If only 1% of players can be classified as good/top players, and the proportion of girls to boys is 1:100, then the top 1% of 10,000 players would include a total of 1 girl.

Since when was it a requirement to have won mAT to have an opinion on girls and guys playing PvP? I would agree that to have a good idea of the environment one needs to know the environment personally, I'm not of the habit of pulling my opinions out of a hat. In all my HA and GvG experience, it has always been several of the males on the team who were unable to leave their egos at the door and pull together as a team. If I trusted the stereo type of my experience rather than the most likely statistics, I'd have stopped PvPing a long time ago.

But that is beside the point of the actual topic. Guys should not be surprised to find that girls enjoy games of all sorts, whether they are competitive or not. Most girls I know don't call themselves girl gamers, they call themselves gamers. Trying to address the topic of getting more girls to play games has been overworked to glory over the last few years. Thinking Pink is not the answer.

Burst Cancel · Sep 01, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Do those of you spouting crap about being 'unbiased' actually believe the things you say, or are you just arguing? People naturally thin-slice their experiences as a predictive tool. If I meet 10 people who exhibit certain traits, and 9 out of those 10 engage in certain behaviors, I'm going to assume that those traits are related to those behaviors, whether there's a statistically relevant correlation in the general population or not. This bias will be retained as long as it has demonstrable predictive value - in short, you can't eliminate bias if the people holding it aren't presented with a significant number of exceptions.

Bottom line: stereotypes will not disappear as long as enough people continue to live up to them.

pamelf · Sep 01, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd

Nintendo fanboys crying over linsey comment: http://gonintendo.com/?p=54282

Omg thanks so much for that! That totally made my day.

Lady Lozza · Sep 01, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

...
Bottom line: stereotypes will not disappear as long as enough people continue to live up to them.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I've never let stereo-types dictate my gaming experience.

Example (PvE): A player with a bad bar is only detrimental to the team if he/she becomes argumentative when given helpful suggestions. And by this I'm not referring to the "run pvx build noob" that I've seen in some teams. Those who believe the stereo type that a bad bar = a bad player are letting the stereo type dictate their team composition.

This is something I don't do. I am willing to believe the best of a player until they prove themselves to be a total ass.

PvE is easy. Getting through it without PvX is not a challenge. If I'd passed up the opportunity to team with "noobish" players who were more than willing to listen and learn, I'd have missed out some of the better experiences I've had whilst gaming.

Burst Cancel · Sep 01, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Well, I don't know about you, but I don't have time to get to know everyone I see. If I see a guy in a wifebeater and baggy jeans hanging off their ass, I'm going to make certain assumptions about him before anyone moves or opens their mouths. Sure, these assumptions could be totally wrong - but until I actually meet such an exception, there's really no reason or evidence compelling me to change my assumptions.

Similarly, if someone in GW shows up with a terrible bar, I'm going to assume that that person doesn't have a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing clue what they are doing. They could actually be the best GW player in the history of the game out on a lark, I suppose, but I don't have the time or inclination to worry about such random exceptions.

Thus, if someone like Avarre keeps running into drama queens, I fail to see how they could be disabused of their notions without compelling evidence. Who's going to care about how great women are supposed to be if every one you actually meet is a disaster?

Being unbiased might be great to talk about, but it's impractical and frankly fails to reflect reality.